Anti-Empire

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As Shelly notes in the article to which you refer, "But that's my fault for not realizing". I could not agree more! Harsh experience in the world leads one to understand that there are exploitive individuals loose in the world, there always have been, and there always will be. An open-minded young person would be well served to gather advice - this blog is a good example - so they can make an informed decision.

We don't arrive on the planet understanding all of its murky dealings - it takes time and a few bruisings to figure this place out - and much, much of it is not nice. Freedom of choice, and the resulting responsibility for living with the consequences are good credos to live by. Seeking input, information, advice and so on before commiting to a choice is a good practice.

If some of these young women thought they were making a statement (and a few bucks) through their pictures, those statements still stand regardless of the sleaziness of the enabler. Perhaps you would rethink your message here: the misogenist sleazebag does not have the power to diminish your bold statement - just close those neurons. Chalk up the financial disappointment to experience, and be a bit more discerning about who you do business with. But by no means does this invalid their statement, which was their creation. Mentally, do not hand the sleazebag that power. Retain ownership and therefore the validity of the motivation that inspired it in the first place. I think this is a stronger message.

This blog is a good example of what?

A good example of a place to gather advice and information. You have provided an alternative way of thinking which expands the possibilities and potential upside for women. Rather than settle for $300 and a disappointment, think like an entrepreneur and make more! Change the paradigm! Go for it! It's a good message. It's good advice (IMHO).

While the $300 claim is quite suprising indeed, I believe Spooky definitely used the hipness factor as an incentive to prospective girls. For instance, the hipster scene in San Fran eat SG stuff right up, so there's a sense of notoriety that accompanies being associated with the site. Would you be ready to sacrifice monetary compensaion to say that you were part of the cutting edge?

The girls probably recieved compensation for SG-related appearances. Maybe.

Whatever the case may be, it's quite sad.

I would be prepared to sacrifice monetary compensation for a lot of things. Are you specifically asking if I would take my clothes off to gain notoriety?

Also, in my view, corporate branding has co-opted "hipness". You can buy the "hip factor" with the right shirt, sneakers, music player, etc. In this case, the women are the revamped product.

None of it seems very cutting edge to me.

"Are you specifically asking if I would take my clothes off to gain notoriety?"

Nah, I was merely being rhetorical when asking about money for notoriety.

As for corprorate branding I somewhat agree with you, but there are some things which go beyond the realm of corporate branding, like phenomenons. Many companies attempt to provoke and create phenomenons, but most of them appear themselves, like the success of Harry Potter or Doc Martens.

Hipness and coolness is entirely born out of the cutting edge, from free thinkers, artists, creators who develop new and fascinating ideas which catch on to a small segment of the population, then catch on. It's only after that and once it is firmly established and attacked to a demographic gobble it up to attract customers.

Like that time where Coca-Cola did an ad where people were drinking Coke at a rave. I had been going to raves for years before that. Seeing the ad, at that moment, I knew rave culture was dead.

Is SG cutting-edge or not? That's entirely up to debate; porn is porn is porn. Is it hip? a lot of people seem to think it is. But there's nothing hip about paying $300 for a photo spread and the subsequent rights for those photos. Unless you're thinking of running the hippest sweatshop in town.

"Hipness and coolness is entirely born out of the cutting edge, from free thinkers, artists, creators who develop new and fascinating ideas which catch on to a small segment of the population, then catch on."

I agree...So, to me, being cutting edge is in creating something or generating new ideas. If you see the comments on my post below, rivermomma talks about the externalizing of worth. I think that it would be great if women were guided more by their own desires than what is referred to as the "male gaze".

Polly on porn, catchy alliteration. Very disappointing to see this interesting site not generated by its gals, but what is authentic out there or doesn't eventually become corporate? Why do girls still feel compelled to value themselves thru a mans approval? This is apparent with widespread eating disorders and control abuse in dating. There's a subtle traditional manipulation at work under the surface while we appear to be living in a permissive, expressive culture for all. Interesting posts and comments.

What's really disturbing to me is that Suicide Girls is the closest thing to Feminism a lot of scene kids are exposed to, nowadays. I do think it's pretty awesome that the models are now speaking out against that guy, he seems like an ass.

Tangentially related->
If people are looking for an interesting exploration of the issues surrounding porn, I'd highly reccomend "Made in Secret", which is this documentary about a group of people in Vancouver who decided they wanted to make their own porn, because they didn't think corporate porn was very sexy. It's really quite interesting, both in terms of what they're doing but also because the people in it and their relationships are engaging. And it's actually a documentary, I swear.

http://www.eastvanporncollective.org/

Thanks for the link. I think people can change the rules of any game. This sort of thing will be liberating for men, as well as women. In my view, people are so over-exposed to maintream porn that our fantasies have been invaded!

People can indeed change the rules of any game. I completely agree. It's called choice. When people are free to make choices, and live with the consequences of those choices, they collectively and dynamically create markets. No market for 'mainstream porn' means no demand for the product, so it's gone.

No supply of actors, the product cannot be created. The actors are free to choose those productions in which they'll participate.

The event that inspired this post started with choices made. They were poor, uninformed choices, with unfortunate consequences for the decision makers.

An invasion of fantasies occurs only if one permits it. Don't have your fantasies invaded. Reject the invasion. Be strong.

Perhaps the trouble I have with it in general is reconciling the idea of objectifying women with an eye for serving another, and simply doing porn or performing because it is enjoyable or meets your needs.
I never posed nude but I did get paid for photoes once that were not the most tasteful- the shallow reason? To make some money for expenses. Simple.
See, when I worked as a waitress and served coffee as a teen I did not do it because I viewed myself as servile, a coffee object. I traded my time for money to pay for things we need.
So there are two levels of work and what work means to us- the notion that we trade time or flesh or skill or our minds for soemthing we need. Then there is the other aspect of objectifying and porn that suggests it is our PLACE which I reject.
It is not about product/end result so much as motive. WHY do we take our clothes off? WHY do we wear high heels? Because we look good for ourselves or as Polly stated, the 'male gaze"??? Why do little girls wear belly shirts in elementary school? because they want old men looking a them? I think not.
The trouble also somes when men rationalize these things by saying "well, yeah I had sex with Amy Fisher but look at how she was dressed" its the culture of excuse making for predatory behavior.

I mostly agree RM, but when you say men, do you mean 'all men' or some men? All? Most? Many? The vast majority? A few? A small minority?

I was with you on your comment up to that point. There's no excusing a scam artist, but knowing how to use one's judgement is an important skill, no matter whether you are considering posing for porn, pouring coffee, or having your water heater changed.

Education leads to making informed choices. I am teaching my daughter to be a critical thinker, to apply judgement, and to rely on that judgement. So she can make choices.

No bad behavior needs be excused. But is certainly is worthwhile avoiding. So if the motive was to make a few bucks, or to make a statement, that was accomplished. If trust was extended to a scumbag, then lesson learned. Take the lesson and move on.

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