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Richard Evans

My favorite quote: "We are literally buying into our oppression."

ie: You're only as oppressed as you allow yourself to be.

There may be hope for you yet Polly.

Artemis

The key here is though that the women are rich. unlike their fore mothers (think janis joplin, judy garland, marilyn and a host of others). Modern women have learned to play the game and do not die penniless anymore. That is where the progress is being made. Eventually, they'll deal with the other issues. In the past their male agents took it to their own banks leaving the women to become suicidal, et al. Therein lies the difference. If women are going to objectify themselves, they should laugh all the way to the bank, and leave the men pissed of (and penniless?). We do, afterall, live and work in the same world. It's a jungle out there.

Polly Jones

It would be nice to think that women can aim for more than being poor. Certainly, it is not enough to make money on oppressive images of women. And, the other issues need to be dealt with now. While women aren't to be blamed for aspects of their oppression (e.g. violence), we can also be smart about the extent we participate in oppressive culture.

And, RE, clearly, buying into one's oppression is not the equivalent of creating it.

Richard Evans

I'd like to say that you've missed the point Polly but you're too smart for that. I think you're making a consious decision to overlook the concept of "individual responsibility" as it came through in your post.

You know full well that we all have choices in life. We can choose to become drug addicts or alcoholics or not. We also choose whether or not we will be oppressed by others. In each instance there's a symbiotic relationship with the parties involved. One can't survive without the other.

Here's a great quote I've read recently: "A Slave Is A Man That Waits On Another To Set Him Free."

Like I said previously, you're only as oppressed as you allow yourself to be.

The Fat Lady Sings

Idiots notwithstanding - I think you've done an excellent job of synthesizing the problem. I have been railing against this particular problem for years. It's quite pervasive; and goes far beyond hip hop video porn or Paris and her constant need for physical exposure. Women (and men, for that matter) are constantly denigrated in every advertisement I've seen these past few years - on TV and in print. Woman as mommy or slut, man as child and/or lazy, lying slob. It really pisses me off; and it should piss off men as well - but for some reason that escapes me - it doesn't. They seem quite content to have themselves portrayed in such a negative light. So do far too many women, for that matter.

As for those making money off of either gender-specific perversion - profit at any cost has been the order of the day for many years now. Look at how most corporations exploit everything in their quest for money. Look at our ‘anything that's expedient’ politicians - their needs supersede that of their constituents; that makes lying expected rather than exceptional.

I know it seems as if I am traveling rather far afield here. But I see the intellectual connection between the marginalization of women, and corruption at the highest levels of government. Dismissal of people of color is what historically comes next; and we have seen the buds of that just this year. Oprah only saw the effect on women. I see the disintegration of society as a whole.

Richard Evans

"Women (and men, for that matter) are constantly denigrated in every advertisement I've seen these past few years - on TV and in print. Woman as mommy or slut, man as child and/or lazy, lying slob. It really pisses me off; and it should piss off men as well - but for some reason that escapes me - it doesn't. They seem quite content to have themselves portrayed in such a negative light."

I agree! How's it feel to have an "idiot" agree with you?

Polly Jones

FLS,

Your connections make sense to me. I think we become divorced from ourselves in ways that makes resistance more difficult. It is almost as though people's instincts are slowly destroyed. I also think that creating and maintaining struggle for groups helps to keep them so busy that they have little time and energy to participate in critical discussions.

RossK

The 'buying into the oppression' is a concept that really resonates with me.

My kid is 13 - and this issue is rapidly becoming all consuming.

.

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